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How we heal: Rethinking attachment through the lens of AEDP with Dr. Diana Fosha and Karen Pando Mars

Securely Attached 1:01:28 Original episode ↗

65% of the talking has a confirmed speaker.

This show doesn’t publish its own transcript, so whosaid shows the moments worth finding and who said them — each one plays from the original audio.
OpinionDr. Sarah Brenn14:20

“the healing capacity is in you always, right? You know, I'm not assuming that you are sick and I have to heal you.”

The ability to heal is always present within the client.

FactKaren Pando Mars18:16

“part of what we talk about in AEDP is a word called transformance, which Diana coined, which tends to be the opposite of resistance.”

AEDP uses the term “transformance,” coined by Diana Fosha, to describe the opposite of resistance.

OpinionDr. Sarah Brenn20:09

“you're, as a parent, you are not your child's therapist, but you are their source of, like, writing the attachment blueprint.”

Therapists function like parents in shaping a child's attachment blueprint.

OpinionSpeaker 122:43

“we are not sort of like slaves to our histories.”

People are not bound by their past attachment histories.

OpinionDr. Sarah Brenn24:12

“attachment is this, like, fixed, you know, locked-in thing. But reality, it's— I mean, even the idea of, like, an attachment style isn't really an accurate way of describing it.”

Attachment styles are not fixed categories; the concept is a simplification.

OpinionSpeaker 130:56

“Well, you know what I want to add to that is that we don't have to be perfect.”

We don’t need to be flawless as therapists or parents; imperfection is acceptable.

OpinionSpeaker 131:45

“But I think the repair— this is also what we've learned from research and really from our therapeutic experience, is that Making the repair, owning the lapse, apologizing for oneself, you know, when the dust settles, taking responsibility, being interested in the other person's experience, doing, you know, whatever it takes, you know, to sort of set that repair in motion, you know, not expecting it to happen like this, just because I apologize, it's going to be now okay.”

Repair after a lapse is essential and can be cultivated through responsibility and empathy.

FactDr. Sarah Brenn33:12

“maternal attunement, like 54% of the time, as little as 54% of the time was still predictive of a secure attachment relationship.”

Even limited maternal attunement (about 54% of the time) still predicts secure attachment.

FactKaren Pando Mars34:05

“1/3 attunement, 1/3 disruption, 1/3 repair.”

Attachment interactions can be broken down into roughly equal thirds of attunement, disruption, and repair.

FactDr. Sarah Brenn40:31

“And even in, like, a parenting interaction, you're processing what was therapeutic or bonding or repairing about what just happened. And I would imagine too, because just from a developmental standpoint, you're also helping a child practice the skill of Reflective functioning, right?”

Parenting interactions teach children the skill of reflective functioning.

OpinionDr. Sarah Brenn45:50

“And that's like, I think, where the magic happens.”

She believes the point where mutual asymmetry is recognized is where therapeutic magic occurs.

FactKaren Pando Mars46:45

“If I'm working with someone with an avoidant pattern, moving in really closely and saying, like, can you feel me with you, might actually stir deactivating the attachment system.”

Close, intense interventions can deactivate the attachment system in avoidant individuals.

FactKaren Pando Mars46:59

“And so I really started looking at what's different, like what is helpful for one can be dysregulating for the other.”

What helps one attachment style may dysregulate another.

OpinionDr. Sarah Brenn52:05

“And you have to figure out like not just their attachment styles, but their regulatory systems, like their nervous systems, and how do they receive co-regulation from you, and what can they tolerate.”

Therapists should consider clients' nervous systems and regulation capacities, not just attachment styles.

OpinionDr. Sarah Brenn55:02

“Yeah. No, it's super orienting, right? Like, everyone feels a little better if they've got a cheat sheet.”

Having a cheat sheet helps therapists feel more oriented and confident.

StoryDr. Sarah Brenn55:29

“I know that as a therapist, there's a million times where I've felt helpless in a session because I don't know what I'm— I feel the disconnect and I don't always— it's like I have to figure out what to do.”

She recounts moments of feeling helpless during therapy sessions.

RecommendsDr. Sarah Brenn58:15

“I recommend getting this book. Tailoring Treatment and Attachment Patterns, Healing Trauma in Relationships. Definitely go get it.”

She urges listeners to read Diana Fosha's book on attachment and trauma.

RecommendsSpeaker 159:00

“we're going to have a conference in New York City, April 4th to 6th. Come join us.”

Invites listeners to attend the upcoming AEDP conference in New York.